New Northern Ireland Flag

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 09 Jun 2012 19:32

Like this?

irlanda-do-norte.png

I thought a light yellow would contrast better with red, but it's a taste option, obviously.
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Sammy
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Sammy » 09 Jun 2012 22:44

A little bit off topic but I think for anyone who wants to design a flag might benefit from knowing the flags used in Northern Ireland. You might also find it interesting. So I have put together a list of flags used by ordinary people, most you would find on lampposts or houses but some are used by sporting bodies and fans. The lists are in three sections for Unionists/Loyalists and Nationalists/Republicans with the third section being for flags seen as neutral. The flags are as fallows:
Nationalists/Republican flags:
1. Tricolour, National flag of the Republic of Ireland. Green White and Orange. Symbolises peace between Catholics and Protestants. But in Northern Ireland seen as Republican. The orange (which represents protestants) is often replaced with gold.
2.Ulster flag. Flag of the Provence of Ulster. 6 of 9 counties make up NI this is used to symbolise that Ulster is part of Eire. Historically the arms of this flag appear on many unionist badges and symbols. But it has often been used at Republican parades and rallies and the flag if not the arms are seen as nationalist. It is however making a slight comeback to the unionist community and is often seen alongside the Ulster Banner at Ulster Rugby matches.
3,4,5. Flags of the Provinces of Leinster, Connaght and Munster. These are Used alongside the Ulster Flag to symbolise the want of an All-Ireland state.
6. the Four Provinces flag. Used to Symbolise Iirishness and an the want of an All-Ireland Nation.
7. Sunburst Flag. This flag represents the youth wing of the Irish Republican Army (IRA). Fianna na hÉireann. The symbol of the sunburst can be seen on some Republican murals, highlighting the dawn of a new era.
8. The Starry Plough. Takes the Star formation of the big dipper in the shape of a plough. This flag comes in three forms
A.It was first used by the Irish Citizen's Army who were a socialist organisation which fought in the 1916 Easter Rising. Today associated with the Irish National Liberation Army(INLA).
B. An alternative version which I think is based on the colour of the Irish Citizens Army. Has also been used in other paramilitary colours.
C.used by the Worker's Party and (Slightly Militant) Irish Republican Socialist Party.
9. Many Nationalist flags bear a harp, these vary from form to form and can be seen on plain green backgrounds or even defaced tricolours. The green flag here is based on the colour of the (US) 69th regiment with Erin go Bragh(Ireland for Ever)
10. This is an unofficial flag. it is not used (or representative) of the current paramilitary terrorist group. It commemorates the original IRA who fought in the Irish war of independence and became part of the Irish Defence Forces(IDF) the Armed forces of the South. The badge is that of the IDF.
11. Flags of the IRA are normally based on tricolours some even bear weapons or clenched fists. These can still be seen in the more extremist areas.
12. A Union Jack in the colours of the Republic of Ireland. This is to show defiance to the British.
13.Celtic Nations Flag. Representative of Ancient Irish Celts and friendships with the celtic and sometimes republican aspects of the countries represented on it (Brittany(France) Isle of Man, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall(England) and Wales).
15. Celtic (pronounced Sell-tick) Football club. Scottish Premier League club in Glasgow (Catholic team) connections with Ireland(Republicans) many Celtic flags consist of tricolours defaced with the club badge.
16. Flag of Palestine. The Palestine/Israel situation is often compared to Northern Ireland troubles. With many Nationalist sympathising with the Palestinians. The IRA had links with the PLO. Many Muslims would also integrate better into Nationalist Communities where Jews would Integrate better with Unionists

Unionist/Loyalist Flags
A. Union Flag/Jack National Flag of the UK. Is the only flag that has any legal status in Northern Ireland. Used by Unionists to show their Britishness. This flag is made up of the cross of St George(England) St Andrew(Scotland) and St Patrick(Ireland). Defaced forms of this flag with the NI coat of arms or red hand are also popular.
B. St Andrew's Saltire or Cross of St Andrew. Flag of Scotland. Represents the close links between Ulster and Scotland (which can often be seen from N.Irish coast). Many Protestants use this flag to show their Scottish Ancestry.
C. Ulster Banner. Official flag of Northern Ireland until 1973. Still used by the Irish Football Association and Commonwealth games. Used by Unionists. Often appears with a union flag in the Canton.
D. Flag of the Ulster Nationalist movement which wants an independent Ulster Nation from both Dublin and London. Features a St Patrick's Saltire on top of that of St Andrew. Despite being a Separatist flag it is often used by unionists to represent Ulster-Scots.
E.The Boyne Standard. This flag is often associated with the Orange Order. It is said to be the standard design of Colour of Ulster Regiments in the Army of William III (William of Orange) at the battle of the Boyne in 1690.
F.Crimson Banner. This flag is the historic flag of Londonderry. Today it is associated with the Apprentice Boy's of Derry (loyal order similar to the Orange Order) Some versions appear with the city coat of arms and Apprentice Boys of Derry and No Surrender.(the Battle Cry of the defenders at the 1688-89 siege of Derry) Legend has it the original flag was a rag that Colonel Mitchelburn(governor of the city) dipped in blood and flew in defiance of the enemy in the siege of 1688-89.
G. Ulster-Scots flags vary often from maker to maker but nearly always consist of St Andrew's Saltire defaced with the red hand. Some designs have the red hand with thistle leaves. Many Protestants (in particular Presbyterian's) have Scottish backgrounds and have retained many aspects of their heritage and culture despite living in N.Ireland for about 400 years.
H.Many NI football fans carry flags that bear the IFA badge. These vary but often carry slogans such as "Our Wee Country," We're Not Brazil" Some even have the names of the 6 counties or a map.
I. The Ulster Volunteer Force(UVF) was raised in 1912/3 to resist home rule. it later became integrated into the British Army in WWI. A terrorist group was formed in the 1970s took and use this name UVF. Therefore these flags are hard to police(terrorist flag are illegal) as it is often unclear if they are historical or terrorist.
J. Young Citizens Volunteer (YCV) was a youth wing of the original UVF and also became integrated into the army during WWI. As well as Young Citizen Volunteers this flag bears WWI battle honours and the Army unit (14th battalion Royal Irish Rifles)
K. Other Paramilitary flags seen in more extremist communities are the Ulster Defence Association(UDA) and Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF)
L. Jews often integrate into the Protestant community and often use their own versions of flags. Here the Ulster Banner is combined with the Israeli flag. The Israel flag is used by unionists the same way Nationalists use the Palestine flag.
M. Despite Royal Flags being only for the use of Royalty. Loyalists often use these flags as a show of loyalty. The Royal Arms of Scotland are sometimes used to show loyalty to the monarch of Scotland.
N. Royal Irish Regiment. Despite the Army recruiting men and women both North and South as well as from both communities, many unionists support the troops where nationalists don't. The flag on the left is the camp flag of the Royal Irish Regiment(easily available in shops) where the one on the right is an unofficial flag that came out for regiments first home coming from Afghanistan. The Regiments Motto is Faugh-A-Ballagh (Clear the Way).
O. Ulster Defence Regiment(UDR). The UDR (not to be confused with UDA) was a local often part-time Army Unit that specialised in Anti-Terrorism in the Troubles. It merged with the Royal Irish Rangers in 1992 to form Royal Irish Regiment. The UDR was often portrayed as the "Defenders of Ulster" from terrorism in the unionist community.
P. This flag is based on the British Army Flag. It has the badges of the Royal Irish Regiment, Irish Guards Royal Dragoon Guards and Queen's Royal Hussars which are Irish regiments or have Irish Ancestor regiments and recruit in NI. The slogan Supporting the Best symbolise the Support for the armed forces within the community and the contribution NI makes to the army.
Q. Glasgow Ranger Football Club. Rivals of Celtic the main Protestant team in the Scotland close links with NI and particularly Linfield football club in Belfast.

Flags seen as Neutral
i. St Patrick's Saltire or St Patrick's Cross. Represents NI in UK flag. Often used as a cross comunity flag at St Patrick's Day celebrations. Used increasingly to represent NI. Also used in the Police Service of Northern Ireland Badge.
ii. Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) Flag. Irish Rugby team represents the whole island and usually use this flag.
iii. Cricket Ireland Flag. Irish Cricket team also represent the island and used this flag.
iv. various plain flags bearing shamrocks are often used by people as a neutral flag at sporting events or St Patrick's day. At the last Commonwealth games in India fans of Eamonn O'Kane a (catholic) N.Irish boxer represent Northern Ireland carried flags like this.
v. Eddie Izzard's green dove flag. When British comedian Eddie Izzard was running the British Isles to raise money for Charity he was carrying the flags of the regions he was in. When he got to N.I. he decided to make up his own flag. It's dark green with a white dove in the upper fly (turned toward the fly end). He says he picked the green because it's the colour of the N.I. football jersey.
A little off topic but I thought you might like it
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Sammy
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Sammy » 09 Jun 2012 22:47

Leonardo Piccioni wrote:Like this?

irlanda-do-norte.png

I thought a light yellow would contrast better with red, but it's a taste option, obviously.

Yes thats awesome

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 10 Jun 2012 00:56

Sammy, thank you for this lot of information.
Tonight I'll probably post something about Northern Irish flag question in my blog.

Now we ought to wait what people have to say about the ideas, enriching the discussion.
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Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.

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Sammy
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Sammy » 11 Jun 2012 14:24

very well explained on the blog. Not to sure if I could have explained it that well.

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 11 Jun 2012 20:46

Thank you. Feedback is always welcome. :)
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Shaun Adams
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Shaun Adams » 13 Jul 2012 02:32

TheNewTeddy wrote:If unionists are willing to back St Patrick's Saltire as the flag, it solves all the problems.


Sounds good in theory but you'll also have to how catholics/nationalists will react to it - I personally favour it but I have drawn up a design with a simple red hand in the top diagonal - see attached
ni flag3.png
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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 14 Jul 2012 03:16

Shaun, we'd considerate something like this, but I think it'd only look good in a more "square" shape (i.e. 3:4) or with a small charge. Anyway, welcome to discussion.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

In his blog, forum member Sammy shared two links about NI proposals:

Image
http://rotterdamherald.blogspot.com.br/2012/05/new-flag-for-northern-ireland.html (in Dutch)

Image
http://rotterdamherald.blogspot.com.br/2012/07/new-flag-for-northern-ireland-2.html (in Dutch)

I think the first one is a very interesting proposal, but second, although being beautiful, looks too complicated. They inspired me to create this proposal:

irlanda-do-norte2.png

St. Patrick's flag with a flax flower. The white can be changed by yellow, representing Ulster province.
Anyway, the fist proposal by Rotterdam Herald could be used, in my opinion.
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Sammy
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Sammy » 14 Jul 2012 19:15

I played about with St Patrick's Cross and flax flowers before although my idea was to have a flower on the white field. One on the top, one on the bottom, one at the hoist and one at the fly. However I decided against it as it could be misunderstood by someone thinking that I left out two counties. A single flax flower in the centre works well. I also considered it but put it to the back my mind and eventually forgot about it. But it is good to see someone else thought of it and created a design. It's certainly interesting. I know the flax flower comes from the old flax and textile industry that was once along with shipbuilding and rail travel the thriving industry in N.Ireland, but I wonder when it started being used to symbolise N.Ireland? It does occasionally appear on coins, its something I will do a little research on.

Shaun Adams
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Re: New Northern Ireland Flag

Postby Shaun Adams » 16 Jul 2012 16:54

Hi Sammy
Good to speak to a fellow Derry/Londonderry man. I believe the flax flower was first used to represent Northern Ireland on the £1 coin in 1986, where it is represented as Flax in a coronet.
"It is thought that the use of linen in Northern Ireland may have been introduced by Phoenician traders around 370 B.C. The development of Irish linen as a domestic industry may later have been encouraged by the monks of Northern Ireland, and there is a clear reference to the linen trade in A.D. 1273, when it was reported to be flourishing."
It is also used to represent the NI Assembly but generally I don't think the general public actually realise what it is, as it isn't a readily identible icon. I think the use of common Ulster/Irish symbols such as the Red Hand, shamrock and harp are much stronger


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