Family/Personal flags

Discussions on non-geographical flags and flags used in fictional works.
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PaulJames
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby PaulJames » 21 Aug 2012 15:35

Thank you! I'm glad you like it.

The lion salient is a very under-used charge, compared to the ubiquitous lion rampant, which increases the chances that this shield is unique. I thought of it as representing your ancestors bounding across the water from Scotland to Ireland (you can't exactly bound in a boat, of course, but what the heck! :) ).

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 21 Aug 2012 22:08

Paul James, I have to congratulate the good work you did! I worried about white thistle, because they use to be represented proper (in natural colors), but searching on web I found at least other example:

Image

Now, you two influenced me to post my coat of arms. Actually, I never finished it completely, being this version only a draft to final result. The more worrying thing about is the use of amaranth in place of gules.

500px-meu-brasao-de-armas.png

Comments about the coat of arms can be seen in my blog: http://create-recreate.blogspot.com.br/2012/08/draft-my-coat-of-arms.html.
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PaulJames
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby PaulJames » 22 Aug 2012 09:09

I think yours is fine, Leonardo, and I wouldn't worry about the amaranth. It has been used before at least once, and it makes that part of the arms distinct from the white lions passant on Gules, of which I'm sure there are plenty about.

My only quibble is with the flying owl. It should be possible to create the crest physically to sit on top of a helmet, and that can't be done with objects hanging in mid-air. So I would land the owl on the wreath.

OK, here's mine (as they stand at the moment - I've been playing about with the crest):

pj-arms.gif


There's meaning behind it all:

Cinquefoils are used in the arms of the place where I was born and went to university. It's five petals can also represent the fact that I am one of five children. The colours come from the national flags of the three countries I was brought up in : UK, USA and Canada; the blue and white bend represents the Atlantic Ocean which separates the two continents.

I've spent my career working in libraries and the library IT industry, so this is reflected in the crest : book (libraries), billets bretessed (used as a symbol of computer technology, because of their resemblance to a microchip), and the sun representing the englightenment of knowledge which both industries serve.

The motto - "Truth from Knowledge" (or "Truth from Science") - I'm a firm believer in evidence-based understanding, in preference to intuition, belief, wishful thinking etc.
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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 22 Aug 2012 18:41

Your coat of arms is pretty good, Paul James - actually, I think yours is better than mine! I'm a big cinquefoils fan.

PaulJames wrote:My only quibble is with the flying owl. It should be possible to create the crest physically to sit on top of a helmet, and that can't be done with objects hanging in mid-air. So I would land the owl on the wreath.

I never considered your point, but yet corrected the problem. I haven't great pretensions to have carved arms or something like this, but forecast is always a good idea.

What makes me more undecided about the shield is the lion, that's too furry, in my opinion. I could use a stylized lion, but it's useless to solve the problem, because some heralds wouldn't depict it this way. I thought about use one or two lion heads, or Leo symbol, but they aren't so much better. What I actually want is a colorful and geometrical coat of arms, like yours, but with my personal touch, in other hand.
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Sammy
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Sammy » 22 Aug 2012 20:51

As brilliant as Paul James's design is, I was not completely contempt of leaving the coat of arms which I had known and grew up with(legal or officially mine or not). But at the same time I completely love the new coat of arms which Paul James was very good to make. Toying with the lion doesn't work and now I think I know why you chose a salient lion :lol: My first 'successful' design was dividing the shield into quarters and displaying the 'modern' coat of arms and 'ancient' coat of arms in two quarters each. I don't like this at all as I think it looks too cluttered and messy. So I thought why not display both side by side. There a various examples of this being done my inspiration was the coat of arms of the English Great Western Railway,which displayed the coat of arms of the two cities it connected(London and Bristol)side by side in this way. I displayed the modern coat of arms on the left and the 'ancient' on the right. I moved the motto to the top in the Scottish style, but rather than having two mottos saying the same thing I made a secondary motto "Bier the Gree" which is Scotch for "win the victory" a sort of always do your best thing :P I am thinking of getting a framed version of this and hanging it on my wall. However the coat of arms I am going to use(on bushiness cards, profile pictures, and banner form for my personal flag) is the new modern arms. :)
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PaulJames
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby PaulJames » 23 Aug 2012 08:04

Sammy, I'm sure the Great Western Railway badge was never granted as a coat of arms - I don't think any grant (personal or corporate) would contain two shields. There are circumstances where the arms of a man and wife are displayed on two shields, but not of an individual on his own.

As for the quarters, I'm glad you're not keen on them, because quartering isn't really appropriate unless you are the heir to two different coats of arms (i.e. one of your female ancestors was a heraldic heiress).

If you want to keep the lion rampant on black, that would be OK as long as it's made distinctive somehow. There are plenty of other possibilities, such as :-

mckittrick new idea.gif
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PaulJames
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby PaulJames » 23 Aug 2012 08:12

Leonardo, I don't think most people will ever create a 3D version of their crests nowadays, but nevertheless crests are supposed to depict a 3D object, which would have sat on a real helm if you were a medieval knight in a tournament. There was quite a lot of bad heraldry in the past where impossible crests were used, but modern heralds have generally returned to more realistic designs.

As for the furry lion problem, have you thought about using a mountain cat of some sort instead (jaguar, puma ...)? It's appropriate to your location, rarer and therefore more distinctive, and much less likely to be displayed with all that long hair waving all over the place!

Paul

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 23 Aug 2012 12:10

I thought about using both a cougar (puma), symbol animal of my city (São Paulo), and a jaguar, Brazilian national animal, but in my crest.

The lion is a very common charge, I'm sure, but it's there for a kind of canting arms, because "Leonardo" means something like "brave lion" or "brave like a lion". So, just a really good reason would make me drop the lion, but I haven't yet something as strong as it
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Sammy
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Sammy » 23 Aug 2012 13:26

Paul James you are spoiling me with choice. Just as decide that I am going to use your design you make another one! I am really going to have to take some time to consider both of these as I like them both. The Great Western Railway did actually have their coat of arms as two shields side by side. It was a common practice for early railroad companies however over time they put a GWR button logo or simply "GWR" or "Great Western"on their engines and rolling stock rather than their arms.
I like Leonardo's idea of putting the lion on his coat of arms as that symbolises what his name means. I think you should keep the lion as it has such a strong meaning for you and is a personnel thing which is what coats of arms are for. :)

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Leonardo Piccioni
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Re: Family/Personal flags

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 24 Aug 2012 12:18

Why not something like this (a smaller change)? A McKittrick coat of arms with an adding of your previous (?) personal flag.
to-sammy.png
. If you prefer, you can change the rampant lion by a salient lion.
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